Addiction vs. amusement, vanity vs. self-confidence, vice vs. hobby

You guys already know the issues between DH and me. We have been talking more which is good. We had a good long clearing of the air session last night and are trying to work things through and understand where each of us is coming from. He was upset that I was hiding purchases and not being honest with him and breaking promises that I had made to stop shopping. I've apologized for all of that and tried to explain how I felt and why I was doing it--I felt like I had to hide my shopping and YLF participation from him because of his negative reaction to it, which just created a vicious cycle of disapproval and dishonesty.

So, I've basically stopped buying new stuff (except for the Kate Spade dress with my consignment/rebate money, which DH said was OK), and limiting my time spent here to 15 min a day (so I'm sorry for not posting everyone else's threads as much!). I proposed that we could each a "personal/hobby budget" for his diving/camera equipment, my clothes, etc. and he was open to that, although we didn't discuss how much or when it would start--originally I had proposed to SYC for 3 months.

I know I made some mistakes and I do understand why he is upset and that he has every right to be and I'm trying to change. I'm just sad that we see things so differently. He told me he is scared that I'm acting like a crazy drug addict and that I'm out of control. That my posting on YLF is pure vanity and that I'm seeking compliments like a drug addict seeks "hits". That I would go into physical withdrawal and wouldn't be able to stop shopping or coming here even if I tried. He said that when he felt like he was playing video games too much, he just quit cold turkey for 6 months but he's worried I wouldn't be able to do the same. And I said, "Well I've been cutting way back and I don't think I need to quit altogether because I don't think it's a problem." And he said, "See, that's just what an smoker or alcoholic or drug addict says!" OK, touche!

But the thing is, I really don't think I'm an addict and I really don't think it's the same level as being a druggie! Yes, there is potential for similarities, and I probably was investing more time and money into this before than was necessary. But OK, I still work full time, still take care of the kids, we make enough money to cover all our expenses, and we can definitely afford what I spent on clothes. I'm not doing anything illegal, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, and don't even drink coffee. I don't have any other hobbies, it makes me happy and is my only creative outlet. So while I understand where he is coming from with the way I acted before, I just wish he wouldn't see my "hobby" in such a negative light. Where do you draw the line between addiction vs. amusement, vanity vs. self-confidence, and is YLF a vice or a hobby? He says he has been supportive overall, was the one who told me to revamp my wardrobe, went with me and bought me Anne Fontaine shirts and a trench coat at White House Black Market, etc. etc. But he said, "After the way you've acted, don't expect me to be all supportive and warm and fuzzy about your YLF activities." He said he isn't expecting me or asking me to quit YLF altogether. He said he just wants me to control myself and is OK with what I'm proposing as long as I stick with it.

But I'm sad that he thinks I'm an addict! Am I really? I don't know--a lot of you ladies shop and are on YLF a lot, as much as me or sometimes more. Do you or your husbands consider yourselves addicts too? I feel kind of vulnerable posting so much about my problems, wondering what you guys must think of me, but I still do value your support and perspective. And, DH is a good husband and father, and I am not trying to make him out to be some sort of controlling villain. We just don't see eye to eye on this issue. Please don't think badly of him or attack him!

This post is also published in the youlookfab forum. You can read and reply to it in either place. All replies will appear in both places.

62 Comments

  • catgirl replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, I want to respond in detail but my husband is nagging me to "get off YLF already" and watch Jon Stewart with him. Does that tell you anything? :) I will write more tomorrow - just wanted to let you know that you're not alone.

    But your fellow YLFers may not be the best people to advise you on this subject either, since we're all here too! I have missed Kim/Queen Mum, and at the same time I really respect her ability to decide to take some time off and then really do it.

    It's a complex topic deserving of more than my last fried-brain moments of the day...

  • bj1111 replied 12 years ago

    addict? really? you go to work everyday, your kids are fed, dressed and shipped to school, you spend quality time with two adorable seemingly well adjusted kids...i don't get the addict reference. i know he wants you to be happy...it does seem like there are hubby-approved ways to spend money and time, and non-approved ways.

    i'm sorry you are going through this.

  • Deborah replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, firstly I think your hubby sounds like a loving and caring man. I certainly don't think badly of him at all.

    Secondly, yes at times I feel I am more than a little addicted to YLF. There have been many evenings in my kitchen on my Ipad while I am (kind of) preparing dinner and my DH pops his head in gently asking if if Im planning on having dinner ready.... tonight!!

    I think we are all motivated by many different things to post and participate here. Personally I love having a group of 'friends' to share my passion for fashion! I also enjoy how as time goes on we share more of ourselves (as you are doing here). For example my first thought this morning upon seeing the tornado news was "I hope my Texas frends are ok" and I wanted to follow them up, I even mentioned it to my DH. Looking good is important to me so receiving feedback on my outfits and how to pull them together better is also a big reason for posting. Not to mention the inspiration I get from seeing all the outfits you and the other YLFers post. And I wouldn't be being honest if I didn't say that I get a lovely boost when I receive compliments on how I have put an outfit together.

    Having said all this, I have had to establish balance. The truth is I could sit on YLF all day and totally immerse myself in fashion, clothes and style.. but I am a mum, I work for an international aid agency , I am a Pastors wife so very active in church life, I sit on two boards, and am about to embark on the development of a new community program in my local community - please don't think I am big noting myself as the point I am wanting to make is that we all have a busy lifestyle and multiple commitments, and to be successful at managing all these things we have to create balance and establish priorities.

    Talking to each other, working out a budget arrangement and establishing priorities for how you spend your time will all be beneficial to your relationship and your life.

    The most important thing in my opinion is your relationship with your hubby. Be open about your love of fashion, include him, share your interest with him. My hubby thought YLF was a little strange at first, and now he offers to take photos (was a little hurt I think when I got a self timer app) and asks "how the girls are today" and has actually become interested in my interest - certainly not to the level of you lovely ladies - but hey!

    And lastly Natalie, I feel privileged that you have opened up and shared with us. There is no judgement here, just caring and support. I am glad to have "met" you here and appreicate and value your on line friendship. And I hope I havn't rambled on too long here but I hear you want you to know I care. xxx

  • Belladogga replied 12 years ago

    Hi, Natalie. I'm a lurker who has always enjoyed your posts. You've always come across as just really excited about all your new style discoveries and how much you're learning. I've never had the sense that you were out of control and I think that eventually the amount of shopping you do would have naturally tapered off - probably when the clothing season in which you initially discovered YLF came round again. It has always been very clear that your family is the most important thing to you.

    I think many men just can't understand how interesting clothing and fashion can be for women. They expect "their" women to look good but they don't realise or value the time, effort and/or money that might be involved in achieving that look. For them style and fashion is by definition frivolous and vain. They don't see it as creative. I also think any new interest that they perceive as taking time away from the time you spend with them will be suspect. My SO regards my time spent on YLF as wasted - barely a notch above playing Bejewelled. Mind you, he would be quite happy if I spent hours on the internet watching Grand Prix racing with him - that would be a good investment of my time : (

    I think also that our men generally don't understand the sense of community and support that we get from YLF and other style blogs. Even though I don't post much it has meant so much to me to see other women going through the same struggles that I am. I've been excited to follow everyone's vacation packing, to share in their epiphanies and to learn from you all. I think that for men whose hobbies involve them in a team or group the allure of YLF might be easier to understand. For men who don't have that kind of group of friends around an interest it might be more difficult.

    That said, I do think it is possible to go overboard or to use sites like YLF as a distraction from boring or unpleasant tasks we should be doing IRL. I'm supposed to be working right now... In the end the two of you need to keep talking as you are doing... It's likely that you will never see eye to eye on this but hopefully you will eventually come to a point where your DH doesn't feel threatened by or concerned about your YLF activities and you don't feel so misunderstood and belittled (sorry if that seems too strong a word to you).

  • ManidipaM replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, I don't think it's that your husband doesn't understand you need a hobby as much as him. The difference is partly a sociocultural attitude I fear --- fashion as frivolous IS the mainstream idea, no matter what we say inside YLF. And I have to admit I've been through the tug-of-war of 'am I too vain and frivolous for caring about fashion? am I not feminist enough to not care about plucking my eyebrows and matching my socks etc?'

    Note, for example, that when you say 'addiction', you think of very specific 'substances' --- drugs, coffee, alcohol, nicotine etc. Yet as a medical professional, you know very well that those hits are quite similar to the high we get from non-controlled substances like sugar, salt and fat. Yet one lot is a drug and the other is a food. It's a partially arbitrary cultural line in the sand. We can say that foods are also essential nourishment, besides being addictive, while drugs and fashion are not. But that also is true of music, or games, or movies, or books --- indeed most hobbies. Yet, we think of the gamers and the bookworms as nerds (harmlessly driven and addicted) vs the pejoratives fashion or food as hobbies can attract. Foodie and fashionista are often labels that come with a sneer attached in a way that 'surfer' and 'gameboy' don't --- as addictive and behaviourally very similar though they are. They are attached to cardinal sins, after all! What do you expect of activities that remind you of vanity and gluttony? Adrenaline high-seeking is not in the Bible, unfortunately, and most cultures valorize rather than criticize martial attributes, for example.

    So it is social value judgement at play here, informing and shaping his concerns. My husband for instance often blows up thinking I'm addicted to the computer --- at first he said it was too many games, so I cut back from a dozen to two; then he thought it was too many TV shows (we don't have an actual TV), so I only watch those with him if he's home and watch the rest when he's travelling; now he's wondering about YLF. The truth is that I work, play, read, research...everything on the computer these days. I like that my 'devices' and 'information sources' are streamlined into this one unit --- but I can see why to the outsider it would look like I'm always stuck to the machine. It LOOKS like addiction, even if I know my level of engagement isn't that deep or all-encompassing.

    And I have to keep reminding my SO that it isn't the computer that is competing with him for my attnetion --- that if I'm not spending time with him, it could be that he hasn't asked and I think he is busy; or that when he asks I'm in the middle of something and don't jump up immediately it is because I have always been the less spontaneous partner who tends to work with a 'plan' and has trouble switching gears.

    I think one way to tell addiction apart is when it really interferes with basics --- hygiene, eating habits, care of dependents. It is, OTOH, very normal to put off the boring cleaning chores when you have a hobby that consumes you.

    It's good that you're talking about it, and I hope in time he'll come to see this new hobby as non-threatening and NOT all-consuming. I think I see enough little glimpses of your time with kids to feel you're not in danger of neglecting them.

    More than addiction, when it comes to fashion and self-image, I'd say the bigger danger may be approval seeking --- but I also feel that YLF is one of the few places where the support is so customized that you're unlikely to become a brainwashed sheep.

  • Louise replied 12 years ago

    I think calling you an addict is harsh and rather over the top!!! Are you still managing to get up in the morning, feed and clothe yourself and the kids, get the kids to school, keep the house presentable ..... and the other things mummies and wives do? If yes then I'd say calling you an addict is a bit silly!! Are you getting in debt for your 'habit'? I wonder if this has more to with hubbies paranoia that if you look good other men will be looking? If you're hiding stuff from him is it because you're worried about his reaction, in which case the hiding stuff is as much his fault as yours!! X

  • Louise replied 12 years ago

    On a slightly light hearted note bf likes that I look good and occasionally get another males glance, in his head he's going "bad luck mate she's mine" which is a bit of an ego boost for him. I might also add he has the same thoughts when someone looks at his Alfa (car) but hey ho I'll take it as a compliment x

    A woman I work with had similar issues when she started dying her hair, losing weight and wearing nice clothes it caused huge arguments and her hubs used to accuse her of looking at other men I always thought it was his problem not hers and sadly she's put the weight back on, stopped dying her hair and is back in sweats and trainers :-(
    I'm probably not the best person to comment on this as its making my blood boil!!! X

  • Mo replied 12 years ago

    In short, I think it's the why more than the how much or how often. The biggest factor is if one persists in the face of continuing negative consequences. At least, that's the quick layman addiction terms, as I've come to understand them after many years serving alcohol to people day in and day out.
    But leaving addiction terms out of it, I certainly think there can be a line where the balance tips from fun hobby to obsession, self esteem to vanity, etc. Getting your partner to see eye to eye with you on it may not be easy, or ever happen, frankly. But if you can agree to disagree with a suitable compromise, it sure beats having to apologize or feel guilty for a hobby you enjoy. This was why I did the $125/mo budget last year. I didn't want to have to feel like buying clothes was 'bad'. There is still a hint of that in our house (mainly to the tune of how much I already have, not the $$$ amount) and maybe there always will be.

  • harmonica replied 12 years ago

    First, I want to say that I'm new here and don't know you really well because of the short time spent on YLF. But I've followed your posts with great interest because they are inspirational, wise and fun. I love your style, your wardrobe and how you manage to put together impressive outfits. I also love how you seem to put your family - kids and DH - as #1. So, I hope I'm not intruding by being a newbe and commenting on the complex matter here.

    Short: Your DH seems very normal and I can't see anything bad in him the way you describe this situation. He seems loving, caring and responsible.

    I support MandipaM and Mo all the way. They put it in words better than I can (partly due my need to translate since english is not my mother tounge).

    Addiction - there is a blurred line between addiction and obsession, I think, and that is why obsession gradually can turn into addiction. But to pass that line, I think you have to be less selfconcious and also actively search for excuses to do whatever you are obsessed with. From what I've read, I don't perceive you as an addict. BUT I can see how DH is thinking and that he feels YLF as a threat. You mentioned he liked video games, so he probably knows how it is to be obsessed with a hobby.

    When it comes to my experience with such communities like YLF, it can be totally consuming - especially in the beginning. I can feel that I *have to* check whats going on and see if there are any new comments etc, so some kind of selfconciousness about your activity is required. Though, in my view YLF seems like a very supportive, concious, honest, open, dialogue-minded (vs harsh & shallow arguments), mature and "adult" community, in which everyone can feel safe and be oneself with all our flaws, as well as being on a journey (in life, style, relations etc etc)

    After rambling about, to put it (sort of) short: the issue at matter is complex. You and your DH are already taking babysteps together (though an agreement and acceptance on having different opinions can be just as valuable as seing eye to eye). You are not an addict (in my view). You are really brave to share your story here (kudos to the YLF community!). I belive in happy endings, though it may take time

    This one is for you: "Happy endings" by the British indiepopband Pulp (could't find a link on youtube, but you could seach spotify ;-))

  • RoseandJoan replied 12 years ago

    I understand where both you and your husband are coming from. With YLF the more you participate the more you are rewarded, in terms of friendship, responses and the satisfaction of helping others. It is a fabulous community that goes beyond clothing.

    Looking to thee future, is 15 minutes YLF time achievable? By that I mean reading the blog, taking your outfit photos, uploading your outfit photos, writing your post. Is this achievable in 15 minutes? Does this 15 minutes include any other fashion sites you may wish to visit or online retail sites?

    From a personal point of view YLF is my downtime, it is the opposite of my corporate work, busy Mum life and is the perfect release. Fashion and style are not everything to me but without them my life would not be as rich. I am not ashamed of YLF nor my love of fashion. I am visually motivated and often think in terms of pictures.

    I hope you are able to find your balance soon.

  • fashionista replied 12 years ago

    Goldenpig, happy to hear you are in talking terms with your hubby. Your hubby is caring and loves you. I have my fingers crossed for you that everything goes fine sooner than you expect.

    As for YLF, I am new and still to explore so much so maybe not commenting on this addiction or amusement would be better for me.

    Best of luck for your life.

  • Traci replied 12 years ago

    I'll be the naysayer, brace yourself. I think you crossed the line into unhealthy activity when you decided to lie to your partner about what you were doing. I don't agree with him belittling your hobby, but it was still a breach of trust to get around the discomfort of discussing it or hearing his comments by hiding. When trust is broken in a relationship it takes a while to rebuild. Telling him it was his fault that you lied is not going to go a very long way towards building his trust in you. I think that's a huge part of the dynamic between you two and where the addict talk is coming from. You crossed a line he didn't expect you to cross and now he is afraid and hurt. Those things take time and work to heal.

  • citygirldc replied 12 years ago

    Have you ever thought that maybe your hubby is missing you because of your time spent on YLF? Maybe that's his way of saying that he wants to spend more time with you. I could be wrong though.

  • Vildy replied 12 years ago

    I agree that the problem is something to do with the reasoning behind the manipulative behavior: the lying and hiding. I don't agree that all the things we have learned in our culture to label, in a knee jerk fashion, as addiction are addictions. I'm more in sympathy with the idea that they are behavioral problems.

    http://www.aftau.org/site/News.....8;id=12531
    TAU's surprising new study shows cigarette cravings result from habit, not addiction

    I think that anything you wrestle with - limit my spending, limit my time, limit my approval seeking - the wrestling becomes the problem or the involvement.

    My own position is that I'm an outlier in my YLF usage. I don't want to ask people what they think of my outfit. I'm more interested in what I think of my outfit and seeing what other people wear is something I react to. Maybe it gives me new ideas for my own outfits and maybe it points up something that is not for me: functioning like Angie's Team posts. I also don't aim for killer or #10 outfits. Maybe some of mine would be in someone's eyes in real life who compliment me but it isn't my interest or drive.

    I also sense that I spend too much time thinking about my clothing and some of that is bound up with it being private, totally self-centered time for me. And it's stimulating. Even clothes purging is stimulating: new ideas for pairing, handling and viewing textures and colors. I spend minimal time actually shopping and tend to do it serendipitously. For me, I like that time when I give up the illusion/desire to control events.

    My kid turned me on to sports talk radio years ago. I'm not any kind of serious sports fan but it's a very soothing station.The one we have here has guys who are very polite with each other and the callers. And they are all absorbed in their subject. I listen frequently. We leave it on for the dogs when we aren't home - they seem to like it.:)
    Partly, YLF is like that for me, a very nice atmosphere where people are going into the minute details of a subject that isn't life or death important. That's comforting in a world that has a lot of strife, violence, tragedy. I'd guess I'd be a "better" person if instead I devoted my time to ameliorating those conditions but I gave up volunteer work a long time ago now and I am content not to be killer or #10 in any department in life.

  • Janet replied 12 years ago

    There are a lot of wonderful, thoughtful responses here already, and I do wish you the best as you deal with this and work on improving the situation with your husband.

    I would only add that my husband and I have agreed that the thing that would be a warning sign for either of us is if we feel like we need to hide something from the other. If I were ever about to do something I thought I couldn't tell my husband about, it would stop me dead in my tracks and reevaluate.

    The "hiding" is a sense of shame and guilt. We need to look inside ourselves and address the real source of that. What are we really looking for? Attention, validation, admiration, affection? Are we looking in the right place?

    Not sure if any of that speaks to you, but if so, maybe meeting with a counselor might help.

  • Laura replied 12 years ago

    This thread makes me sad!!

    Each one of us needs to make decisions about shopping based on our own financial situation. That is something each married couple needs to grapple with and work out to their satisfaction.

    Fashion and style, though, should not be something to feel shamed about. There is nothing inherently wrong with being interested in them.

    I am definitely in the minority here in that I proudly proclaim that I am on YLF to people in real life. I really could care less about how people might judge me because I myself do not consider it frivolous. I consider it integral to my self-esteem, and an outlet for my creativity. Personally, I think people admire how I dress. My open attitude about it sets the tone for how people react. If I acted shameful and like I was hiding something, well, then people would react differently.

    Plus, it's fun to hang out here :)

    If my husband was critical of my interest in fashion I would consider it a major affront to me on the most personal level. Fashion is part of who I am and I expect that to be respected, not denigrated, by people I love.

  • Jaime replied 12 years ago

    It seems there are two separate issues - whether you are a YLF addict is one question. I do not think you are addicted - as others have pointed out, you manage to accomplish a lot of other things during the day and are far from completely consumed with YLF. The other issue is your relationship with your husband and getting to the root of his resentment of your time spent here, shopping, etc. This is very personal between the two of you, but it sounds like you need to communicate more and help him see YLF as your hobby and creative outlet, rather than a mad addiction or vanity or so on.

    With that said, I will say I am sort of an addict myself, in that I look forward to spending my waking up time reading and commenting on the board, and take frequent breaks during my work on the computer to read the site. When I am doing something a bit boring or unpleasant I take more breaks. I would be very sad if the site disappeared, and it definitely is a habit. Regardless, I feel perfectly ok about it and hope others do too.

  • Traci replied 12 years ago

    Have you ever heard of the book The 5 love languages? There's a quiz here for each of you to take to understand how you give and interpret love.

    http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/

    I highly recommend it (even just the quiz) for a deeper understanding of how you and your partner view signs of affection differently. I bet words of affirmation will be on your list, but not your husband's. Understanding that will give him insight into your behaviors. Knowing what his are will help you understand his reactions to you.

  • ButterflyLady replied 12 years ago

    I keep coming back to this thread, wondering how to reply ...

    My own thoughts are that there are other reasons, possibly not related to the time you spend here, the money you spend on clothes etc, why your husband does not want you to do it. It's possible he feels threatened by your new hobby, your appearance, your online relationships here. Maybe he wants to spend more time with you. Perhaps he feels he is allowed to have hobbies, but when you are not working, your focus should be home and family (however non-chauvanistic a man is, I think there is something deep in the minds of many men that really thinks this).

    I cannot say what you should do - I would be outraged if my husband ever likened my shopping/YLF-ing to drug addiction, really outraged, and serious words would be had.

  • MNsara replied 12 years ago

    Natalie - you've gotten some wonderful thoughts and advice here :-) You've been such an enthusiastic YLFer, and it has been great fun to see your style journey. You've also been open and introspective about your YLF 'relationship' ;-) and so many of us relate to your concerns, struggles, etc. This IS a complex issue because every person brings their own personality, history, etc. to their relationships (YLF as well as marraige) -- BUT I also think there are some commonalities we share here.

    I think it's perfectly normal to go a bit 'overboard' when someone first discovers YLF and starts their style journey. Most of us have a lot of catching up to do, a lot to learn, and a lot to try out. I have a feeling that more than a few of us ignore the things we would/should do IRL, to spend time here.

    That sort of intensity seems to work itself out over time, and I don't know when your time would have come (when the seasons repeat?, as belladogga said), but if that never happened - then that would be a concern. (Although you may not have the luxury of letting it run it's course naturally.)

    I'm also worried that lying about and hiding your clothing purchases created an even bigger issue. There's a lot of food for thought right there about why you choose that route ;-) Your DH is probably wrapping the lying/hiding and YLF together into one issue that he hates and worries about.

    Anyway, I'm thrilled to hear you're communicating more. I'd even suggest you schedule a weekly check-in with each other as a way to be sure the topic stays open. If you find yourselves having the exact same conversation over and over and over, ad nauseum, and getting nowhere, definitely consider outside help.

    We're rooting for you two!

  • celia replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, I am sorry that something that has been fun for you turn out to be a source of divergence in your house.
    I already wrote and deleted several answers.
    Calling this forum , or any other for that matter, an addiction is simply ridiculous. Everyone has the right to spend time talking about their interests, or even getting positive feed-back to sustain their self ego if they so desire.
    Every relationship is about compromise but it comes from both sides.
    It is not for me to say that you spent to much money and/or time with clothes, you know it better than anyone else.
    Just make sure that the issue you are dealing with is really clothes or if there is something bigger there.
    Best for both of you.

  • Jonesy replied 12 years ago

    I feel like we can all give our input, but ultimately I think a couples therapist is the way to go, IMHO. You are in a stressful period of your marriage (young kids), you have this whole breach of trust issue, and it sounds like there are other important topics that need to be covered in a thorough way. An objective, caring third party who is trained to work with couples might be just the ticket.

    Just my two cents, obviously :)!

  • Suz replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, warm hugs.

    I would only repeat what some others have said—MNSara, Janet, Deborah, in particular.

    I love your enthusiasm here on the forum and have identified with it, because I joined shortly before you and remain in the "obsessed" phase of trying to get things figured out. I could cheerfully spend all day here if I were able to! But addiction? I don't think so.

    My husband, like Deborah's, was a bit worried and threatened at first. And he still teases me occasionally, or says, in a not-too-happy voice, "It's time to get OFF YLF!!"

    But mostly he says, "I'm so glad you joined that group. I'm so amazed at how great you look since you found that website. You've really stepped up your game. I can see it makes you really happy."

    He also says, "What do the YLF ladies say?" whenever I get something new. He will happily take photos now (teasing me a bit, but all in good fun.)

    I think for your husband to get to that place, it may take some time and continued conversations. He is frightened of something, I don't know what, and his sense of being threatened is what makes him use hard language like "addiction." I am so glad the two of you are talking openly now, and I hope that these conversations will eventually lead you to a more comfortable place.

  • Isabel replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, I have heard doctors say that something is a problem when it inteferes with your daily living and obligations. It sounds as if this doesn't. I also believe that sometimes we exaggerate to get our points across, it is human. I believe that is probably what your husband is doing. He is probably so frustrated that you broke your promise that he felt that was the only way to get it across to you.

    Men are very different from women and women really thrive when they have a supportive group of other women. Your husband, as a doctor, should realize this in his heart. That is why more women show up for support groups. It is natural to us. It is not because we need "hits"...it is because we thrive with support. I think that you should also start talking about your clothes in terms that have to deal more with "art"...though I have to say, I am a total right brain persons and I have a very hard time understanding art and the intense attraction to it. But maybe he will start to see it differently.

    I think that you are on the right track. He may never understand but he doesn't need to. He does need to understand though, that all he really needs to get is that it makes you happpy. BTW : A budget is a great idea.

  • teeandcee replied 12 years ago

    I have addictive tendencies myself so I can see how this whole thing could get out of hand. In fact, since starting to participate here again I feel that addictive feeling inside coming alive and am keeping a close eye on myself. Anything at all can become addictive, even "good" things like exercise or healthy eating.

    With myself I constantly question why I'm having a desire to purchase this or that. With an addictive personality it's difficult to walk the line between enjoyable hobby vs. hoarding, and questioning my desires helps me walk that line.

    I guess my whole point is that if you were/are addicted it certainly doesn't make you a bad person. Just a normal one. :) The more we're aware of our character "challenges" :D the more easily we can watch out for them while still enjoying fashion and our hobbies.

  • mrseccentric replied 12 years ago

    oh Natalie, i'm sorry you and hubby are in a pickle, but very happy you are talking about it!

    My first thought on reading this was, 'is hubby a virgo?' I get very similar reactions at times from my husband and also my mom - both virgos! Well, they are both similar perfectionist control - fr73ks, and can get pretty heated about their opinions. And they also don't really see 'grey areas' - the house is either in absolute perfect condition or it looks like a bomb went off in it - no place exists between the two extremes!

    And, just my opinion, but i do think that 'addiction' is over the top. Last time we were in SF my husband and i saw a woman seizing on the street in Union Square. Luckily some EMT guys were there, keeping her from injuring herself and calling for medical help. They were just pulling syringes out of her pockets......THAT's addiction. Being fully functional at job, kids, etc. is not. But, for some people, it's very very difficult for them to see subtleties.

    If i recall your husband has been down on your interest in clothes from the start, correct? It had something to do with him thinking you were 'turning into your mother?' i agree that breaking your promise not to shop was a bad move, but frankly my husband does that regularly (yes, on clothing - he's quite the clothes-stallion!) and i don't beat him over the head with it.

    anyways, to get back to the 'turning into your mother' thing. Now, my family of birth tends to be messy, packrat hoarders. Piles of clothing, truly scary corners of the yard overgrown with spiders and mouse nests, little paths made so you can maneuver in between the piles of magazines.....it's all been done. One time i talked to my brother, he mentioned he had rented a dumpster and it was out front of his house. What's up? i asked, thinking he was remodeling or something. "getting rid of stuff'. 'What stuff?' 'You know, just stuff that accumulates.' Enough to fill a dumpster, apparently.

    So, now that you have a picture....of course, mr. e the neat freak is intermittently terrified (after 12 years of married life) that i will blossom into a a hoarder overnite. I'm a SAHspouse and i keep our place very neat and clean (i don't like mess either!). But one sock on the floor, one book out of the bookcase and 'OMG!!!! IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!'

    In other words, he is unusually freaked about this *because of his own issues*. So he totally overreacts. At first i would wonder maybe he had a point, now i just ignore him. Although it does aggravate me when every time i free up extra space in my closet or chest of drawers he fills it with his clothes, guitar, etc. Who has too much stuff?!??!

    But every couple has to work these things out for themselves. If things don't calm down quickly, Jonesy's suggestion of an outside ear could help you hear each other better.

    Speaking as an art major in college, you are incredibly visually creative and talented and i am sure that is a big part of what's driving this! Taking some classes in color theory, graphic design, collage, drawing, watercolor would be tremendously fun for you and a great outlet for your energies! (Not to mention how it will help you hone your style ;)

    Take care, best wishes to you and hubby. It sounds like you are changing a lot, discovering exciting new worlds that don't necessarily include him (altho hello isn't he a photog? couldn't he take some awesome shots with you as uber-talented model and stylist?), and he's most likely worried about what that means to your relationship. And while it's great when your spouse understands you, if they don't it's still possible to get along just fine :) steph

    p.s. my hubby says the same type of 'vanity' stuff about my blogging....but only when he's feeling pressure about work or is miffed at me about something else. It's a popular idea out there in the culture at large so it's easy to grab at. i'd love to take pix of other people, but pro models cost $$$$! ;)

  • Vildy replied 12 years ago

    oh gawd, Steph, re: the Virgos. :D
    I'm a Leo and my husband and son are both Virgos (what did I do in my previous life to deserve this?) I like to say they are always busy dumping sand on my campfire.

  • Vix replied 12 years ago

    Just a general comment first --

    I think it's important to remember that the medical world uses "dependency" as a synonym for "addiction." And that there are an awful lot of very high-functioning substance users out there. Referencing stereotypes of rock-bottom *results* of addiction doesn't serve anyone.

    Could you have a dependency on the adrenaline high that studies have shown does come with buying new items? Could you have an emotional dependency on the validation you get?

    Or does your behavior fit more with obsessive-compulsive actions? [I am very selectively obsessive and can definitely get a little compulsive re online time. Neuro studies show online interactions do change brain patterns!]

    That said, I agree more with the comments that think you need to question your lying/hiding, and you two as a couple need to work through how you can maintain your independence/control over how you spend your time and money.

    It's all a balance, and you may need to set limits on yourself FOR yourself. Not have them imposed by an outside force...that's a great way to make adherence zero, and you've already BTDT.

    There's no super-big need to make it a pathology, but you may need to identify, then avoid or limit ["harm reduction" in the lingo] shopping triggers.

    If do have dependencies, making sure you're not on YLF or shopping sites when you are in a vulnerable-to-temptation may help. It's the same reason someone trying to eat healthier shouldn't grocery shop when hungry!

  • Jem replied 12 years ago

    Wow, I'm so impressed of the helpful, thoughtful and eloquent responses you have received. I have nothing to add, but wanted to say that I'm sorry you are going through this and wish you luck on figuring this out with your husband.

  • Vildy replied 12 years ago

    Another thought about all the outside activities you keep up with:

    My college roommate is a physician. When I talked to her about our son having OCD but feeling good about his going to school and/or holding a job, she said those are the two things she looks for: is the person going to school and/or keeping a job?

    It's good, in other words, to live in the gray areas. Some problems, maybe, but a lot of functioning at the same time. It's good Enough for getting on with life and nobody has to be 100% anything to be happy. And maybe lots easier to be happy when people quit trying to hold themselves to those standards. Breathing room.

  • velvetychocolate replied 12 years ago

    Natalie,

    Good to hear you two are continuing to talk this through, and I'd have to agree that sometimes people use strong words to get our attention, so maybe "addict" was just an over-the-top way of making a point?

    I do not see fashion, shopping, participating in YLF as an addiction. I see it more as a hobby, or a creative passion.

    Would your husband feel the same way if you were learning photography and participating in a forum discussing how to get a particular shot, how to use Photoshop, what lighting works with what and so on? What if it was cooking? If you were way into coming up with fabulous new recipes and meals? Painting? Posting pictures of your latest creation?

    I see being interested in fashion and YLF as a creative endeavour. Artistic and fun.

    When you take the time to come up with an outfit, how is that different than what an interior decorator does when he or she comes up with a fresh new colour scheme for a room?

    A photographer gets up at 5 in the morning to get just the right light. Buys all kinds of equipment. Spends hours tweaking.

    In the meantime, it seems like there is something that makes your husband feel bad about this - and I'm not sure what exactly it is. He was having trouble with it even before you agreed to stop shopping and then bought something else. That adds another complication to the whole thing. But...isn't it true that he was bothered by this long before the most recent incident?

    Is it just because it's fashion and some people tend to view fashion as kind of frivolous? Or is it because maybe he feels he's not getting enough of your time and attention?

    I'm trying my darndest to imagine someone telling their loved one to shut down their passion for photography or give up painting. I can see a situation where a person might ask their loved one to slow down spending so much money on photography equipment after a period of buying a lot of gear. That said, I cannot imagine asking someone to give up something that makes them happy, something that creates beauty and joy in their life.

    I really do see fashion and YLF as a creative endeavour.

    Hmm...

    Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to ask if you've ever gotten way 'into' something before your interest in fashion, and if so - was your husband supportive? If that's the case, then his dislike might just be because some people think fashion is frivolous. I think this will be easier to work out. Liken it to photography, interior decorating, painting etc.

    If not, then perhaps the issue is that you're really interested in something and it is taking up a lot of your time and emotional energy. Maybe he's just not used to that yet?

    What do you think of this idea? What would happen if you got really interested in something else, and you were participating on a blog/forum, and posting pictures of ...oh, I dunno, fancy meals you came up with or getting feedback on some beautiful photographs you'd taken? If you became "obsessed" with interior decorating? What if it was gardening and you were buying all kinds of fancy plants, trees, shrubs, not to mention all the tools? Posting pictures on a forum/blog of your grand plans for the backyard, all mapped out? Showing off the japanese maple tree on your front porch?

    Don't laugh - I'm just asking because I'm wondering if it's simply that fashion is seen as frivilous sometimes, or if it's more to do with the amount of time and energy you're spending. Or if there's some fear around the idea that you don't share every single hobby/interest.

    I really hope you can get to the bottom of it. Keep talking and this will get resolved - I'm sure of it.

  • mrseccentric replied 12 years ago

    Hi Vix! to clarify: the point i was trying to make was that, in my experience when you start grouping such extremes of behaviour and situations all together under one word that word starts to lose any meaning or usefulness. I'm sure other people have had different experiences and come to different understandings. I have, unfortunately, had experience with family and friends who have struggled with addiction. Some lost that struggle, others have been high functioning for decades.

    I do agree that the term 'addiction' is pretty fraught. And since people apply it so widely i think that getting a working definition in place is a great idea for any people discussing it. That's what i was trying to get at in my example.

    Bottom line, Mrs. and Mr. goldenpig are the ones in their marriage and it's down to the two of them to decide how they want to relate and communicate between themselves. I was just offering my own opinion in terms of my own experience in response to the topic.

    To me, it sounds more like 'not being perfect, because life is exciting and being married is hard' than addiction. But then, i'm just me and there's a lot i don't know! Hope this makes my view a little more clear, steph

  • catgirl replied 12 years ago

    Hi Natalie... Looks like just about everything has been said here. I thought about this last night and this morning, knowing the wise ladies of YLF would have chimed in before me...

    The word addiction (as has been pointed out) can be used casually these days, much like the word obsessed, rather than in its clinical/pathological sense. And I think that may be what your husband means, and in that sense, it can apply to anything. I know people who are addicted to Facebook and Twitter to the point where I feel it does interfere where their lives - it's like they create moments just to be able to tweet them, instead of actually living.

    And there is such a thing as a shopping addiction, almost exclusively a women's issue. After all, shopping gives the same adrenalin rush, followed by the need to have more, along with the behavior patterns that are hard to break. I know for me thrift shopping became an obsession for a while - it deeply satisfied some need to hunt and gather at a relatively low price for the entertainment value.

    I come from a family with addictive personalities. Lying about the activity and hiding the consequences (loss of money in the case of gambling, purchased goods in the case of shopping) are two of the biggest signs that a problem may be developing. And to be honest, the argument that "I'm hiding it because you make me feel bad about it" can be part of the issue too. I'm not at all siding with your husband here. It's possible he is making a value judgment based on what he thinks of fashion in general (the "frivolous, silly, vain" societal perception of which everyone has mentioned). At the same time, I do think there are genuine earmarks of concern that you and he need to work out.

    I COMPLETELY relate to the escape that YLF provides and the fun that comes of fashion as a hobby. You're a mom, a wife, and a professional - all demanding roles that need some release. Only you can really know if it's crossed the line into damaging your personal life and relationships. You are so brave to come here and open up to the forum. Perhaps you could consider sharing your initial post with your husband as well? He needs to know that you're not casting him as the villain in this little drama.

    I TOTALLY agree with Jonesy that couples counseling could really help you sort through this, especially if you have been going around in circles. You need someone professional to break that cycle of miscommunication and help you set appropriate boundaries.

    Huge hugs to you and I hope for all the best for you both!

  • Jewell replied 12 years ago

    I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. I'm happy to hear that you two are talking and attempting to work this out. That is the most important thing right now. My DH had a similar reaction to the amount of time I was spending on YLF and the energy that was being directed towards clothing etc. For what it's worth, he felt the same way when I became interested in decorating and gardening, too. I'm a motivated learner and can quickly become absorbed in wanting to know everything about something I find interesting.

    From talking to DH I learned that he was worried my priorities had become out of whack. In his eyes whatever gets the most of my time and energy is what is most important to me. YLF wasn't really getting that much of my time, but it sure looked that way to him. So I took his concerns to heart and made some changes. I limited my daily YLF time to one hour split into thirty minutes in the morning and thirty minutes in the evening. I even used a timer to make sure I stayed within those limits. I knew I needed at least ten minutes to read, reflect on, and comment on Angie's blog in the morning. The other twenty minutes were for reading and responding to members' threads. The thirty minutes in the evening allowed me to post WIW threads and do some more reading and responding.

    Keep talking to your DH and trying to achieve that balance that will make everyone happy. Best of luck to you!

  • fern replied 12 years ago

    Very thoughtful thread.
    My husband is a "dive-in" person, like I believe GP is. Four years ago he decided to make beer. OK, I shrugged. He bought his first equipment, made beer, checked out beer books from the library, made more beer, bought better equipment, bought more specialized books, made more beer. He spent hours on the beer forum. He talked about beer all the time. All The Time.
    If he had been spending our joint money on beer equipment, and if he wasn't super thrifty, we would have had some serious talks about the cost of his hobby. People (95% men) spend crazy $ amounts on brewing set-ups.
    But now, he is in the basement brewery 3 or 4 nights a month, we have amazing beer on tap, he occasionally checks the beer forum for new recipes, and he has integrated the hobby into his life in a thoughtful way.
    He dove in head first and he loves learning - he surrounded himself with his hobby until he felt like he mastered it, and now he spends a very reasonable amount of time on it.
    It was weird and uncomfortable for me when he was so consumed by something I just (sorry DH) don't care much about. And I am a toe-dipper, not a dive-inner, so I didn't understand the process and I was concerned he'd never "come back" from beer world, and afraid it was a permanent change. He's back.
    So I guess in my perspective, you've thrown yourself into this new passion and he's feeling like I was - confused by the changes, concerned about the expense, and tired of hearing about your new love.
    Please deal with the money & shopping addiction questions, but you know you can be passionate about fashion on a very small budget. You are in a family, so you need to find the right time/money balance for your new passion.
    I also agree with the counseling suggestion - my mother always said two toddlers was the hardest period in their marriage, so anything to help you through this time in your lives is a good idea.

  • ironkurtin replied 12 years ago

    GP, I third/fourth the notion of couples therapy. Different people communicate in different ways, and something that hurts you deeply may not have been meant that way by him at all. A trained person can help you communicate in more productive and thoughtful ways. Couples therapy is not an admission of failure. It's a way to learn how to communicate. Think of it as hiring a personal trainer for your relationship.

    FWIW, I do not think seeking positive reinforcement, interesting ideas, or constructive criticism from other women on dressing is a vain behavior.

    And BTW I am a Virgo, y'all.

  • mrseccentric replied 12 years ago

    Hi IK! "And BTW I am a Virgo, y'all."

    heehee! considering Virgos have been mentioned thus far solely by ladies who chose to marry them.....

    i think our extraordinarily positive feelings towards those born under this sign should be obvious :) steph

  • HelenInCanada replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, you've received some very wise counsel here.

    Obviously your 'addiction' to YLF cannot compare to the devastation and danger of a drug addiction. You are upfront here and say your participation has not affected your work or your motherhood responsibilities - huge priorities. That is important. It HAS affected your marriage, though, so I agree this conflict shouldn't escalate, and won't be disappearing on its own. It's great you're talking about it, being open. Perhaps marriage counselling is a good idea. It's not about CHANGING the other person - but about understanding each other's psyche and motivations more deeply so you can have a happier partnership. I really believe a good marriage helps us grow into better people. (I'm on my life partnership #2, so I've learned from past mistakes!)

  • catgirl replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, one more thing - do you have IRL friends who know both you and DH who could give you some level-headed input or perspective? Sometimes I will fly into a temper at something my DH says but be able to handle the same feedback when it comes from my friends... you know how that goes!

  • Meredith1953 replied 12 years ago

    Everyone has offered thoughtful suggestions and I know that many of us have husbands who don't "get" why YLF is important to us. I know mine thinks it is kind of frivolous. I have only have one thing to add. I agree with Jonesy and others that counseling may be a good idea. The reason I believe this is because regardless of whether you have a dependency on YLF or not, you are going to at times continue to have major disagreements with your spouse. A counselor can help you learn to talk with each other in a safe and mature way. This is not easy to do without outside help. You should be able to discuss problems without resorting to hiding things from him. It makes it seem that he is in a parental role to you and I am sure that neither of you want that. Once you can communicate openly and honestly you can resolve this! Believe me, there will always be other situations that require this skill.

  • MsMary replied 12 years ago

    Team Couples Therapy here, too.

    The only other thing I have to add is that the whole concept of you being accountable to him for your shopping and YLF activities, in the absence of any indication that he's similarly accountable to you for, for example, his hobby activities, makes my toes curl. I feel rather strongly that it's not his place to approve or disapprove of your activities. If he wants to spend more time with you, that's fine. He is certainly free to say, "Hey, Natalie! Come away from that computer so we can take a walk!" And you can then say "Yes" or "Not right now, but I'll be ready in 15 minutes!" And as for the shopping and the money, as long as the 401(K)s and the college funds are being funded and no debt is being incurred, honestly I don't think it's up to him to police your spending.

  • Elly replied 12 years ago

    I don't have a hubby--- that said, I'm not exactly wet behind the ears in that area either.

    I came to YLF for the style advice and inspiration and stayed for the stress-relief, the creative outlet, the introspection, and the community.

    I'm a lot younger than a lot of the women here, but I count that as a bonus because I cherish all the advice on life and fashion I get here from women with more experience than me. I love my family and friends IRL and I've learned from watching them in their lives, but their advice on being a young professional adult female, fashion/style, and dating as an adult beyond college is pretty much non-existent.

    I'm on a tight budget and haven't had an issue with over-spending or over-shopping since coming here. If I had more disposable income I would shop more, no doubt . . . I'd also travel more. . . and have more expensive hobbies . . . and go out to eat more . . and not feel bad about it.

    I generally spend 10 minutes here and there between chores or tasks . . . YLF is my break time. Also, I spend a lot of time on YLF during my non-productive time when I am tired from a long day/not feeling well, when I need to relax or unwind, and when the people that are important to me have their own things going on.

    I can "waste" time here. That much is true. That said, I am not putting YLF before people in my life or things I have to get done. I tend to spend an excessive amount of time here when I am feeling down, which is nothing new for me. People IRL always have commented on my ability to stay upbeat. That is how I do it--- when there are negative things going on in most aspects of my life I carve out a little time here and there to spend time on something I can look forward to. In the past I read a lot of free online fiction, cheap dime store type novels, gone for a run, or spent time writing goofy stories. In a lot of ways YLF is more fulfilling than those things because of the "community" feel, being able to help others on occasion, and the self-confidence boost and positive chance for introspection.

    If I were you I would try to explain how YLF and video games aren't the same thing. He may or may not get it or listen. I personally would be willing to moderate my fashion/style/YLF time, but I wouldn't be willing to cut it down extremely or stop. Addicts are people that cannot handle moderation. I would moderate myself and see if he still complains/that is the issue. Be very open an honest with your participation and purchasing (the other issue). I think that would be the best way to figure out what is really going on beyond trying to communicate.

    He seems to think your behavior is attention-seeking . . . is it possible you aren't feeling appreciated for who you are as a beautiful intelligent woman, not just as a wife and mother and breadwinner? If so, you need to tell him you need that from him. If you just miss having female friends that don't focus solely on your value as a mother, YLF is probably one of the least-invasive ways to have "friends" that care about how creative, clever, resourceful, fun, and stylish you are!

    Personally, I'd do a 2-3 month SYC (I can't remember if you had an agreement with hubs about it being 3 months or if that was just your idea) and start immediately.

    I would look at how much time your husband has in "me time" each day/week versus how much you have. 15 minutes doesn't sound like much unless you are also spending a lot of time watching TV, playing in the closet, on another hobby, out with female friends without kids, ect. My idea of moderation would probably be 30 minutes to an hour of YLF and closet play based on how much time the hubs spends watching TV, playing video games, or on his hobbies/online about his hobbies. Putting together an outfit and getting dressed in the morning doesn't count (and think about how much time you save compared to many many women because you don't do high maintenance hair or a lot of makeup-- putting things in perspective helps!). I'd also look into finding one other thing you do enjoy that is about you and not about kids, even if that is something that you only do once a week or a couple of times a month, like a "date" with a girlfriend or two, a class, ect.

    I can't imagine that your husband doesn't spend at least 30 minutes of time a day doing something relaxing that he enjoys that isn't actively contributing to your relationship, family, household, children, his health, ect. I also suspect that you don't complain or say hurtful things about what he enjoys doing with that time, even though it probably isn't your cup of tea (video games?). If he has more time than those 30 minutes, so should you. If he is not ok with you having that time to spend how you want (within reason) and you are maintaining openness and honestly, he is being unreasonable. Marriage is all about compromise, but not having time for yourself, or unequal/unfair rules, rights, and expectations for partners breeds resentment and is unhealthy for each of you, your marriage, and for the example you two will be setting your children when they become old enough to notice these things. I couldn't imagine you wanting your daughter to grow up thinking that what she was interested in was somehow not ok because a man didn't value it, or that it was alright for her not to have time to spend on herself just because she was the mommy and not the daddy . . . or your son thinking similar things about his place in the family or his future wife or girlfriend.

  • ironkurtin replied 12 years ago

    I'm glad you said what you did, MaryK. And I agree.

  • jayne replied 12 years ago

    I am with Maryk too. But none off us can judge your marriage. Good luck.

  • MsMary replied 12 years ago

    Great point, jayne.

    Natalie, I hope I didn't come across as judging you or your marriage or your DH. I can see my wording wasn't very diplomatic. Let's just say that was MY reaction to the situation you described, unencumbered by any actual, you know, knowledge of the actual facts! :)

  • Transcona Shannon replied 12 years ago

    Well...I have avoided responding to this thread all day Natalie in the fear that I would say something inappropriate or unknowingly offensive. No one lives in your shoes and your marriage so what any of us offers here is based upon our own experiences and what you have relayed. I would also never offer any advice unless asked to which I believe you have by posting this thread.

    I was curious to know a man's point of view on this issue since all responses you have received are from women on this forum who also love to shop and be stylish so I emailed my husband and portrayed your situation in very vague and extremely anonymous terms and outright asked him if he felt the same way in terms of time with YLF, vanity, etc. and this is his reply word for word.

    "Nope. I have no issues with it at all.

    Anything we do for ourselves can be called vain -- my photography, for instance – but the fact is that we all seek stimulation somewhere. It’s unrealistic to expect that your spouse is always going to agree with you, or include you in their activities. I’m a bit of a libertarian when it comes to this topic and think that, even in a relationship, people are individuals. And as individuals, they should give each other some room to pursue whatever interests them. Sounds as though this gentleman may be insecure and a wee bit controlling. It reminds me of what Princess Leia said in the first Star Wars movie: “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.” Hopefully she will not grow to resent his resentment. And he needs to find a hobby."

    Take that for what it's worth Natalia - it's only my hubby's perspective but I thought another YLF widower's comments may be particularly telling.

    Sending hugs.

  • lyn* replied 12 years ago

    Have you been having withdrawal symptoms? :p Or has this been getting in the way of your daily life? I know tons of docs who love to shop and look good - I don't think it is a problem :|

    Then again; I do not have a significant other (really); so I am free to spend my moneys any way I want :)

    I hope that the "recess" you are taking from YLF and shopping will not leave you FEELING less fabulous :)

  • Classically Casual replied 12 years ago

    On a more superficial level, I've been attempting to include or educate my hubby as I've learned more about fashion & style these past few months. If I read something that summarizes spring trends I'll forward it to him. He reads it & has actually noticed examples when we've been out in public together. I also sent him the article from the weekly wrap up a few weeks ago written by a man who compared men's love of sports to fashion for women. I think that one resonated with him. In my case my fear is him feeling left out. And the clothing I buy is paid for by my personal discretionary savings which simplifies everything tremendously of course. (And he can spend his $ any way he wishes with no comments from me.)

  • velvetychocolate replied 12 years ago

    Just wanted to add that I kind of suspect that my husband thinks 'fashion' is a bit frivolous (he hasn't said so...just me guessing/assuming) but he's still very encouraging about the whole thing.

    Likewise, I do not quite get the appeal when it comes to the latest and greatest electronic gadget or some new software. I'm not all that interested in timer systems that water the plants at just the right time of day for each 'zone.' I don't get all excited because of some new technology out there. He manages to master the latest and greatest thing even before it has launched, it seems. We're quite different this way - with me preferring real stationery, fountain pens and fresh food made from scratch. He doesn't quite 'get' why I'd spend money on a fancy Microplane grater just because I want nicely grated fresh lime rind. The thing is? He doesn't mind and I don't mind. In a weird way, we sort of complement each other.

    The only reason I posted again is just to say that it really is okay (and beneficial) to have some interests of your own.

    This is what makes life interesting and fun. It's not necessary to be two peas in a pod, all the time, about everything. This just isn't realistic. Probably not all that healthy either.

    If anything - the fact that you have an interest in something that he's not all that interested in is a good thing! How else are you two going to continue to find each other a little bit mysterious and intriguing?

    Have you two always been super close? Like two peas in a pod? Maybe this is why the new interest in fashion and YLF is causing friction? Is it the first time you've gone off and developed an interest in something that he's not all that that keen on?

    I guess I just wanted to say that it can be fun, and *funny* when couples have different interests. For instance, my Mom got way into decorating her house - she'd change up the furniture just because she was "bored" with it. My stepdad would make jokes ....saying he didn't always know what he was going to get when he walked into the room. Meanwhile, my aunt somehow got into some sort of crafty thing and my uncle was battling glitter all over the place, and it was *hilarious* - the way he told us stories about finding glitter in the cutlery drawer and so on. There was even a story about having a family dinner at his house and he found gold glitter on the roast...not kidding about this!

    My own 'funny' is about waking up. It's dark o'clock...I pad downstairs to make some coffee and the light switches on automatically. Then there's this whirring sound in the background...it was an automatic cat litter box in the mudroom. I go to make the coffee, but I can't because it's already on some sort of automatic timer. I'm half expecting to go take a shower and find a dispenser that dispenses just the right amount of shampoo - it's that bad. I walk into a room, and a light goes on. The plants and flowers are watered automatically - all computerized and timed. It's like the house is a living, breathing ...thing. Every thing is automated. All of my voice mails are automatically sent via e-mail too. With a transcript. The coffee grinds itself. I'm sitting there watching a movie - something that the TV thought I'd like, based on things I'd liked in the past....but ....the living room lamp shuts itself off because it's 10pm.

    He has to contend with me insisting on the 'good' tomatoes, and being stupidly fussy about a grater, of all things. But the thing is? It's fun and funny for us. There is a whole lot of joy in embracing our loved one's quirks, likes and interests. My stepdad will 'complain' about the fact that he never knows when he'll come home to all-new living room furniture. I might make jokes about my every thought/idea being anticipated and automated, and my uncle tells tales of my aunt somehow managing to get glitter all over the house. Having to go run errands with gold glitter stuck to his face.

    Not sure if this helps, but I just wanted to say that it's a really good thing to have your own quirks, your own interests - and how this can be a source of laughter and joy - especially if your partner isn't quite as 'into' said interest as you are. Fast forward 20+ years from now ...imagine your husband telling his young adult daughter about the time he had to put up with Kate Spade.

    Or like the time my husband told my family about what it was like coming home from the grocery store with cilantro instead of Italian flat-leaf parsley. How he didn't know the difference and how cilantro and flat-leaf parsley look quite similar. That he didn't know he was expected to smell them if he couldn't tell which was which. The embarrassment. Trying to get it 'just right' for his wife. At the cash...with a clump of something green that looked sort of right...how the cashier didn't even know what it was or what the code for it was. Shrugging his shoulders and hoping like heck it was the right thing.

    Do you see that there can be joy in all of this? Fun and laughter?

    To me, this is one of the very best things about being married. Being yourself, and having a person love you through all of your quirks, obsessions, interests and foibles.

    I hope that you two can see the humour and joy in this stuff. It's a good thing that you don't always see eye-to-eye on absolutely everything.

    Hang in there, and here's hoping you two get it all sorted.

  • Ana replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, I don't really have anything to add because this thread is filled to the brim with so much wisdom already. Just wanted to send hugs and support. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to share this on the forum.

    VelvetyChocolate, I LOVE your post! What a great message. You are a woman after my own heart.

  • Kyle replied 12 years ago

    Crazy, perfectionist Virgo checking in! We don't make it easy, do we?

    GP, I'm sorry this is a difficult time for you and glad you have an understanding outlet here. This is a delicate balance. Communication and honesty would seem to be paramount. As for advice, I offer this. Be honest with yourself first. What is in your heart? If you think you were going overboard, scale back. If not, agreeing to something that does not feel good to you is asking for trouble. It is possible that a larger money discussion/budget is part of the answer. If you are both working within the boundaries of an agreed-on budget, then the focus is no longer just on fashion. The spending choices are for each of you to make.

    Speaking as a working mom, I know it's not easy. We all need to find outlets, creative and otherwise, and YLF is one of mine. It would be painful if my husband did not support me in my interests and passions or if it became a point of contention.

  • velvetychocolate replied 12 years ago

    Thanks Ana :)

  • christieanne replied 12 years ago

    Oh Natalie, I feel for you being in this situation.
    First, I'd like to applaud you for your honesty and candidness in asking these questions and trying to understand the situation. I hope your DH sees the same thing - that you are trying to make up for any mistrust he might still feel and move on without hurting the relationship.

    Second, in defense of your DH, his language in using addiction terms to describe your YLF/wardrobe time and efforts is most likely just an emotional outburst that he fell into because he was upset/jealous/insecure and trying too hard to prove his point. As a medical professional, my assumption (I could be wrong - you would know that though) is that DH has SOME training in recognizing real addiction. If he does not or it was superficial, he may just be falling into the cultural traps that so many do in talking about addiction. I have unfortunate life experience with seeing addiction up close in those near and dear to me and it is certainly far beyond the level you have described.

    Third. let me further play devils' advocate (you may hate me forever but you wanted advice so here goes): you have posted about quite a few unworn items, hiding or misrepresenting some purchases (been there - it can cause some trust issues) and building a new wardrobe so quickly that you already don't love some early YLF pieces. How does this look from his perspective? Was it too much, too fast? Those are a few signs of problems in addicts so maybe he knows that and is judging based on that context, limited as it may be.

    Ok, time to rebuild! You may need counseling but maybe just a long night away with kids at a sitter/family member - how long has it been since you did that? It is so hard with a working couple with little kids to have balance. And it does not get easier so please work on this now. You also mentioned having a third baby and his hesitance. You may just need true heart to heart time?

    I send you vibes and hugs and best wishes as you work on this - I am sure you will look fabulous now that your creativity has been unleashed. Balance in everything is key - I realize that as I get older.

  • goldenpig replied 12 years ago

    Wow, I am overwhelmed with all the kind thoughts and responses! I really appreciate how all of you took time to weigh in and give me a virtual hug and wise advice! That is one of the reasons I love YLF so much! It's going to take me a lot longer than 15 min to digest all the wisdom in this thread and post my response, but I'll make an exception for such a moving show of support and because it's really important to me to figure this out so I can get back on track with DH!

    First off, as I said earlier, I don't think hubby is trying to control me. Someone mentioned that maybe he is jealous of the improvement in my looks or might be worried that I'm doing it to attract other men. So not the case--not even on our radar! He's not worried about me jumping ship. I think he's just concerned because I have been acting really differently that I used to--I never threw myself into a hobby with so much intensity before, or at least something that we hadn't done together! We were plenty intense with our pre-kids hobbies but that was something shared.

    Pre-kids we were TOTALLY into kayaking and scuba diving together. We joined a local sea kayaking group, learned to do kayak rescues and eskimo rolls, even bought our own sea kayaks (which are now just gathering dust in our garage unfortunately). We took kayak camping trips and once went kayaking under the Golden Gate bridge (on a group tour, of course--that can be pretty dangerous to do solo with all the currents). We took a trip to BC and stayed on a mothership boat and kayaked the straits of Vancouver Island, simply amazing and beautiful. Since DD, we've gone kayaking exactly once, and that was because I made us go on our anniversary last year. I told him, "Look, either we use the kayaks or we sell them" and he wasn't willing to part with them!

    For diving we went all out too. We did all the advanced and rescue classes to become certified Master Scuba Divers. We used to dive the kelp forests in Monterey and Catalina, and because the water is cold you have to wear thick wetsuits and lots of lead (we never did drysuit certification). We would dive cenotes in Mexico and caverns in Florida and once we dove a place called Devil's Throat in Cozumel which is an advanced dive through a narrow tunnel that starts at 80 ft underwater and into a cave that is 120-130 feet underwater. It's at the limits of recreational no-deco diving and can be dangerous and I don't think we'd do that again now that we have kids! We used to go on liveaboard vacations where we would stay on a boat and dive 4-5 times a day for a whole week, to places like the British Virgin Islands, Sea of Cortez, and the Galapagos. After that incredible dive trip in the Galapagos where we were diving with whale sharks and schools of hammerhead sharks, DH said, "Let's go again next year!" and I said, "Well not yet, let's just see what happens." And the next month I became pregnant with our daughter, and everything changed and there went our hobbies. DH misses the adventurous life we used to have together as a couple. I do too, but maybe just not quite as much as he does since I've thrown myself into my role as a parent (he has also and participates in parenting fully, but maybe a little more begrudging of the loss of self/coupledom). And the kayaking and diving were his ideas that I went along with and got into because of him, so he misses them a lot more than I do. And did I mention that we were a couple for 15 years before we had kids? So the change in lifestyle and our relationship was quite a shock to say the least!

    We used to be active on a scuba diving board forum (kind of like YLF for diving) and totally into researching diving gear, destinations, etc. DH is still active on the scuba diving board, but I haven't posted there in years. We still dive once in a while when we go to Hawaii but it's like one or two dives in a vacation, not the whole focus of the vacation anymore since we have kids. Last summer he and I went on a liveaboard vacation by ourselves for the first time in six years--my mom came to watch the kids, we had never been away from them for even one night since DD was born (except the night that I was in the hospital having DS)--we spent a week on a boat together which was great for us as a couple and DH was so excited, but I really missed the kids (no phone or internet/Skype for the whole week). And so this year I told DH he could go on another dive boat trip, but he is going by himself this summer and I am going to stay with the kids.

    After having kids I kind of moved away from the diving board and joined a mommy board, and started researching strollers, car seats, baby gear, etc. I admit, I do have a sort of perfectionist/obsessive bent and at one point I had like 10 different strollers (singles and doubles) until I figured out what worked best, and sold most of them (now we just have one single and one double). Same as I do with clothes--I'll try on 50 pairs of jeans to find the perfect one. And I used to put all my shopping efforts toward the kids--they were so cute and well dressed and I was a schlump in my super old clothes and still wearing maternity even though I was back to my prepreg weight. Until I started getting interested in fashion and now it was my turn to do something just for myself! Which is why it's been so fun for me to rediscover myself and my creativity. I am horrible at art--I draw worse than a preschooler. I used to play piano as a child but it was always forced on me. I used to write poetry when I had a lot of teen angst, but nowadays life is much more mundane. I'm just not that great at visual arts or music or creative writing or anything so that's why I've latched onto this fashion thing because I found out I'm pretty good at this and having a lot of fun with it!

    Anyways, on this mommy board I got lots of support and learned so much from the other moms. They talk about all kinds of stuff, life, relationships, etc. It's like having a group of friends that you get to know and hang out with, but just online. Just like YLF! I have met a couple of the moms on that board and they're always really nice. But I don't think DH would consider his fellow scuba forum members his "friends". When I mentioned I wanted to go meet someone from my online forums DH was saying (sort of jokingly) "But you don't even know them! You want to go meet some random person you met online? How do you know they're not a serial killer?"

    I think he resents the fashion because while he wants me to look and feel good, he thinks it's taking too much away from couple time (though he plays video games and surfs the web and does his scuba board and looks up funny joke and picture sites etc etc, so he spends as much time plugged in as I do). Also he's a very private person and doesn't like the public nature of me posting pictures on the internet...he's kind of paranoid that somehow it will be used against me. Like he's worried if my patients find out that I'm posting on a fashion board, that they'll think I'm shallow and think less of me. I disagree, I don't think anyone would care, or if anything they would think it's cool that I have a fashion blog. He always teases me for posing and posting pictures of myself, he can't understand why anyone would post pics of their rear ends on the internet...just fodder for blackmail! Plus he thinks it's totally frivolous, shallow and vain.

    As for couples therapy, thanks for the rec and I think it would be a good idea too, but I've suggested it several times before and he refuses. I think he would rather die or get divorced than go through the "embarrassment and humiliation" of seeking help from a therapist (he kind of looks down on them unfortunately). He's very introspective and analytical and insightful and has a good understanding of what makes people tick and his own feelings and why he acts the way he does. So he feels that he doesn't need someone else who he considers less smart than him to tell him what the issues are, because he already knows. He's a very private and proud person and would not feel comfortable sharing intimate details of problems with others, whether friends or therapist or whoever (especially not the internet--he'd die if he knew I was posting here, but I can't talk to anyone in real life, especially anyone that knows him! So I feel like I NEED to talk to you all!). And he doesn't want someone else telling him what to do. He is very into being in control of oneself (though he has his own struggles with his weight), which is why it concerns him so much that I'm seemingly "out of control" with my fashion "addiction". I would consider going myself to see a therapist (and I actually did one time on my own a long time ago without his knowledge), but I think it would just be another thing I'd have to hide from him, or if I told him I was going myself, he would consider it a huge waste of money and be angry that I'm "talking smack" about him with others, so I don't think it's worth it because I don't want to antagonize him further. He does want our relationship to improve, he just doesn't want to seek help from outsiders (and plus he thinks he hasn't done anything wrong and I'm the one that betrayed him so I have to do the changing!). So I think the best solution is for us to just keep talking openly with each other and working on our relationship ourselves. Someone asked what our love languages are--we did this quiz before and I think mine were acts of service and words of affirmation, and his were quality time and physical touch. I think those are pretty accurate, actually, and something I have to work on because I haven't had time for a whole lot of that with our busy lives and all of our responsibilities. We do try to have date nights when we can though.

    BTW he was an Eagle Scout which I think says a lot about his personality--high achieving, loyal, trustworthy, moral. Loyal to a fault and would do absolutely anything for a friend or family, but if you let him down or cross him, he can hold a grudge for a long time. He has high expectations of himself and others, and can be easily disappointed or take things personally if others don't measure up to his high standards. He has a very black and white view of the world, even though he is perceptive enough to see all the shades of gray. He is very observant and perceptive and tends to brood at times. When we fight, he is so rational and eloquent--he can see (and argue) both sides, but knows he is in the right. He never gets hotheaded during an argument. He would have been a PERFECT courtroom lawyer! Whereas I'm more emotional and tend to blab about how I feel and how my feelings make me react a certain way, and how "I feel you should do x or y for me", which doesn't carry as much weight with him. And of course if I get really upset I just blow up and cry and then it's just over, I can't make any effective arguments at that point and he's telling me to calm down and stop acting so hysterical. Kind of comical now that I'm describing it, but that's pretty much our pattern! Someone asked what our signs are, I'm a Cancer (and an Ox) and he's a Scorpio (and a Rat). Does that mean anything?
    ETA: OMG. I just looked up Scorpio for DH:
    http://www.starsigntraits.com/scorpio-personality
    and Cancer for me:
    http://www.starsigntraits.com/cancer-personality
    and these describe us almost to a T (especially him)! Now I'm kinda freaked out! :o

    Oh, and since he's an only child, he's used to a LOT of attention, and now that we've got two kids who demand most of my attention, he's not getting as much and he's kinda sad about it! Especially when my passion for fashion sucks even more time away from him!

    As for me, I'm hardworking and a perfectionist at times, but other times am rather laid back and a procrastinator. I tend to see things in more relative terms and give people the benefit of the doubt. Like if we invite people over and they don't reciprocate or call us to do things with them, DH will say they don't like us and react negatively, whereas I'll just shrug and say they're probably just busy and invite them over again another time. Probably because I can be scatterbrained myself at times and know that I can forget to do things when I get busy. Sometimes he'll ask me to do something and I'll forget and he has to remind me, or he says he told me something and I don't remember him ever saying that, or maybe I just didn't hear him (I lost some hearing in one ear because of the diving). Also, my big family with me and four younger sibs (which is very boisterous and chaotic compared to DH's small family--he's an only child) and I tend to either make plans at the last minute or change plans frequently as the situation changes, which bugs the crap out of DH. Also I'm always late and packing at the last minute when we go on trips which totally stresses him out--several times we have made it onto the plane with minutes to spare and DH is having a coronary! And I tend to be more of an "ends justify the means" type of person than DH and look at intent behind the actions rather than the actions themselves, whereas DH is very "by the books" and "a promise is a promise no matter what", which is probably why I got in trouble by "bending the rules" and breaking my no-shopping promise (which I now kinda regret making!) So I guess you could say he's a sensitive demanding absolutist and I'm a forgetful lazy relativist! Ha!

    Another thing about our personalities, he's a pessimist and I'm an optimist. So I tend to think that our lives are just great, we're so lucky to have everything we do, and everything is going to be OK, while he's always stressed about our lives and financial situation (even though I think we're doing fine), worried about making mistakes at work or getting sued, and always worried that something bad is going to happen. So maybe that explains why he's stressed about my shopping and my new hobby...he's worried that it means I've changed into a completely different person and it will mean complete financial ruin for us? (Even though yes MaryK, we are fully funding our 401K/pensions and 529's and all of that!)

    Finally (sorry this is getting so long), I do want to reassure MaryK and others that he doesn't think I'm the only one who should be accountable. He always tells me what he's going to buy for his camera and dive hobbies (everyone is always remarking at what a huge camera lens he has!), the difference is I don't tell him no or get upset when he wants to buy something. I'm always like, "Sure, whatever makes you happy." (And yes VC, he is totally the same with the electronic/camera equipment--always obsessing about the latest and greatest version with all the newest features that I don't think make that much of a difference). He does want me to have a hobby and do nice things for myself. I think he just wishes it would be something that is seen as a little less "frivolous" and wouldn't be so all-consuming. And he was really hurt by my breaking promises and hiding things from him which I know was wrong and I'm not trying to justify it, and I'm not planning on repeating my mistakes. He had every right to be mad, but hopefully he will forgive and trust me again in the future. (I think Steph was right about maybe he was worried that this meant I had changed forever into a deceptive untrustworthy liar, so that's why he called me an addict!) I think he may never share my love of fashion (though he does like nice clothes and has a great eye--he can always pick out the most expensive thing), but I think as long as he feels I'm not out of control hopefully he can live with it.

    So there you have it, in a nutshell...what makes Mr. and Mrs. GP tick, my own 5 cent psychoanalysis! Sort of like the "home study" version of therapy! Looking at this, you would think we are polar opposites with such different interests, and how can we ever make it work? (But I think VC's post about having separate interests was hilarious!) However, I think things will eventually be OK between us (again maybe my own eternal optimism!), we just need to reconnect more and keep talking things through. I don't want to give up fashion and YLF altogether and I don't think he's asking me to. It's not like he wants me to have no interests or hobbies of my own. He just thinks it's a very strange one and it makes him uncomfortable. I just have to find the right balance between making me happy, him happy and keeping our family happy, which is what I'm trying to do! Thanks everyone for your wonderful words of support and for letting me open up and share so much with you! I don't have anyone else I can talk to about this IRL so it's really helpful for me to write it all out to get some mental clarity and see what I need to do to improve things!

  • Dashrashi replied 12 years ago

    I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but my first reaction as you have been relating this issue over the past however many weeks/months, was that you two should go to a counselor together. It's been my reaction again with each new incident. And now with this new information, I would recommend what Carolyn Hax usually recommends when there is an issue that calls for couples counseling but one person has an objection to going (especially because they are "private" or "proud" and would find it "humiliating"), which is going by yourself. In fact, I think the fact that you think he would probably also be against you going by yourself is MORE of a reason to go, not less. I will state this directly: I don't believe that you seeking counseling for yourself (e.g. to work out your own unresolved feelings about this rather thorny issue) is something that entitles him to be upset with you. And again, if he is, that's more of a reason to go, not less.

  • goldenpig replied 12 years ago

    Hi Dashrashi,
    Thank you so much for your advice. But I already stated I am not willing to go against his wishes and go to counseling right now or do it in secret. I think it will just cause more problems in our relationship than it will solve right now. I already am spending lots of time thinking over everything and writing down all our issues and I think it has been very helpful to clarify what I can do to change and improve our relationship. But thank you for your concern!

  • Vix replied 12 years ago

    Hi Goldenpig --

    After taking away the "tissue paper layers," as it were, of your relationship I see so many elements that are familiar to things people in my life have had to navigate. And by "people in my life" I include myself!

    Like style, I think some people are blessed with knowing how to communicate and connect intuitively with a partner while others have to learn the skills.

    Things like big life changes (from kids to jobs/money to sickness etc), co-existing of different but both strong-willed personality types, independence vs compromise that doesn't compromise one's inner self/values, priorities -- when one is in a relationship it's so important to find healthy ways to get our needs met by both ourself and our partner. [And to meet our partner's needs in ways that feel right to us.]

    In a nutshell, I think a couple has to turn towards each other constantly in ways big and small rather than turning away when one's feelings are hurt. [Confession: this does not come naturally to me...it's why I loved many things about being single most of my life!]

    That doesn't mean living in each others' pockets or sharing hobbies 100%, but it does mean actions that show the other person they are loved and valued in ways that communicate that to them. [The love languages thing that's been mentioned.]

    Since you all are medical pros and I watched House last night: right now you all seem to have a lot of symptoms -- and you/you two need to identify what's causing them.

    We've thrown up a lot of ideas..."he's doing that and maybe it's because of this" "you're doing this and it may be due to that"...but you two, preferably with the help of another professional, need to get to the answer.

    If you choose to go to solo counseling and your husband reacts to that, it's ok. You'll have more information for the diagnosis.

    If your going makes your husband see how committed you are to a healthy marriage and makes him want to find another, couples counselor, THAT'S ok. Again, you have more information. And information understood in context is, as they say, power.

    Good luck and please do take some action. A strong, deeply emotional bond between parents is a wonderful thing for children to see day in and day out. [And for the adults to experience!]

    ps As a starting point, John Gottman -- research-based ;) -- has relationship-oriented DVDs and books that might help. IIRC men prefer the (edit to correct, geez!) the DVDs.

  • goldenpig replied 12 years ago

    Yes Vix, I think books may be a good first step and less threatening to him if I do that. I have read several of them including a couple of the Gottman books but I think I may need to check some out again. He still won't read the books, I tried that before. I used to devour baby/parenting books as well, but again, he never was interested in that sort of thing. I can't remember all the exact ones I've already read (I think I did do 5 love languages and Baby Makes 3 and Relationship Cure) but let me know if there's any good ones you all recommend!

    We are both committed to the relationship and if I really felt like the marriage was in big trouble or failing I wouldn't hesitate to seek counseling! But I really think we just got a little off track and have been in a rough patch lately, largely of my own doing with my recent behavior, so I am trying to remedy that and I see that there are many little things that I can do to improve things. He cares a lot and is being nice to me and we are trying hard. I think all couples have their issues and I don't want to alarm anyone by posting all this so please don't worry--we aren't in dire straits or anything!

  • bj1111 replied 12 years ago

    natalie, my hubby and i just did the 5 languages of love quiz together that someone had suggested. it's an online quiz that we did in less than 5 minutes. going thru it together helped me understand my hubby just a little bit more, especially where i would have picked a different answer. i also liked seeing him struggle between choices (2 equally good or equally bad). even though we had been together for years, i still learned a thing or two about my hubby and we spend 30 minutes talking about the quiz and where we were and where we wanted to be. nothing heavy, but it was a reassuring check-in.

    if you're hubby likes games and not books, perhaps this quiz would be a good starting point for how each of you expresses and receives love. rather than focusing on the fashion thing, it puts it into a context of the wider relationship.

    here is a general description of each of the 5 languages

    http://www.5lovelanguages.com/.....languages/

    here is the quiz

    http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/

    be well, my sweet. i think of you often these days.

  • goldenpig replied 12 years ago

    BJ1111, thanks so much! I think the 5 love languages are great! I posted about that earlier but it was buried in the huge post so here it is again:

    Someone asked what our love languages are--we did this quiz before and I think mine were acts of service and words of affirmation, and his were quality time and physical touch. I think those are pretty accurate, actually, and something I have to work on because I haven't had time for a whole lot of that with our busy lives and all of our responsibilities. We do try to have date nights when we can though.

  • catgirl replied 12 years ago

    Natalie, what a good breakdown of your issues and differences. So many things you've said resonate with me in my own life or that of my friends.

    My DH and I experienced something similar having been together for 12 years before having our son in our late 30s. We used to hike, ski and mountain bike together all the time. I also had my ongoing obsessions - rock climbing, making jewelry - but there was so much TIME back then!

    After a kid, that fell by the wayside for a while. Now our son is old enough to be doing those things and we can be active as a family together again, though not at the same level. My DH was actually better with that situation than I was, because when my son was little I felt totally TRAPPED by weather (all the mittens and hats and boots to deal with!) and not being active together. As your kids get older, much of this will change naturally - the key is to maintain a common bond in the meantime, so that you still have mutual interests and WANT to do things together when your kids start doing sleepovers and going away to camp.

    I also relate to the no-counseling thing, because of my own crazy Asian family. My dad would NEVER consider counseling if needed - he believes families should be able to solve issues themselves, not to mention the personal/private/"I am invulnerable" attitude. I agree that you still need to go by yourself, and not hide it from DH. He's a medical professional and this is a form of a health issue. Not taking care of a relationship is as bad as not taking care of a broken ankle - maybe he can think of it as relationship PT?

    My DH is used to me doing things without him because I have a strong group of IRL girlfriends - we take girl trips together on significant birthdays, for example. He knows how much I need that time to replenish my soul. Sometimes my friend from out of town will come visit and he'll joke about whether she'll be having a "date night" with me - but I know he knows if I didn't get that kind of time with friends, I'd be unbearable to live with as a wife and mother. Same for him - he needs his time with his friends to have a beer and do whatever the heck guys do on their own. It's hard to balance "me time" with "us time" and "family time" but it can be done!

    Sounds like you and DH are a good balance for each other, but that doesn't mean things can't get out of whack. It's like a neat person marrying a messy one - you've got to find the compromises. Stay strong and make sure he knows that his choices (to go to counseling, to accept your new hobbies) very much matter to the outcome of this situation.

  • bj1111 replied 12 years ago

    natalie,

    you probably know this already...having different preferences for how to receive love will cause friction. i can see why his words are so hurtful to you, while the time spent on ylf instead of with your husband is hurtful to him. how about hugging him while you talk about ylf? also sometimes quality time does not have to be as extensive or planned as date night. date night can have its own pressures for intimate conversation and a "good time."

    maybe even 15-30 minutes after the kids are put to bed and before you fire up ylf would help him see that you are still engaged with him?

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